What is Zsa.Descriptors?

Arne Eigenfeldt 28 June 2010 at 22:44 # Reply

Hey, Emmanuel, Zsa looks very promising. I downloaded version 1.0rc2, and have some comments. Double clicking on the helpfiles seemed to look for the abstractions, rather than the externals (i.e. zsa.easy_bark rather than zsa.bark~). Substituting zsa.bark for zsa.easy_bark didn’t work.
As such, I couldn’t get anything to work.
I am very much interested in this package, as I do extensive realtime analysis, and would love to try your take on things!

Arne Eigenfeldt (I met you at Cycling’s SF bash April 09).

ej 29 June 2010 at 9:57 # Reply

Hey Arne,

This should probably be clarified somewhere, but basically most of the zsa.*~ works in the spectral domain (within pfft~). In order to make things easier, there’s a 2 stage level of abstraction: zsa.easy_* is the one that you want simply use (it takes the window size, and overlap argument). Zsa.easy_* is an abstraction which will create a pfft~ object with the right window size and overlap that you specified, and load a zsa.abs_* in the pfft~. Zsa.abs_* contains the real zsa.bark~.

So the only reason to use zsa.bark~ directly for instance, is if you want to make your own combination of spectral descriptors, or use the result directly within pfft~. This is also a way of optimizing the calculation, as you can see in the zsa.energy~’s help file.

Hope it makes sense.

Arne Eigenfeldt 28 July 2010 at 22:07 # Reply

Ahh. Got it working now.

Looks like I have some fun times ahead, putting these into action!

Great work!

Jon Van Hoff 25 March 2011 at 21:29 # Reply

Is there a way to change the distance mode on [zsa.dist] by sending it a message? I want to have the option of going from the default mode to covariance on the fly.

Thank you so much for these amazing objects!

ej 26 March 2011 at 0:03 # Reply

You can do this by changing the mode attribute: sending the message mode 2 will set the mode to cosine e.g.

Jon Van Hoff 27 March 2011 at 23:09 # Reply

Emmanuel,

I have been working with your Zsa.descriptor objects for some time and I believe I have found a possible bug with [zsa.dist]. I have been developing a program similar to Sven Konig’s “ScrambledHackz”.

I wanted to add the functionality which would allow for switching between finding the most similar list in [zsa.dist] and the least similar list. In my setup, after [zsa.dist] is loaded with lists, I am streaming lists to compare every 23.22m. As the comparison is happening I send a message (mode 2) to engage the cosine mode. This seems to halt the comparison immediately. To make sure this wasn’t a general problem of changing modes while [zsa.dist] is active I also tried sending ‘mode 3′ (covariance). This works.

I am using:
Windows XP sp3 (though the patch also works on Mac)
Max/MSP 5.1.7
Newest version of Zsa.Descriptors

I do not know if this problem exists on Mac but I will have the opportunity to check next week.

To test my bug:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ecv13n3pce669c4
http://www.mediafire.com/?5jtxgjkgz6juke5
(make sure you open the ‘Concat_patch_ej.maxpat’ in the same location as the second patch ‘descriptor_values6.mapat’ or you will get disconnected) patch cables.
1. open Concat_patch_ej.maxpat (make sure it is in Presentation Mode)
2. Turn on sound
3. Double click [p Load_Target_Sounds] and import a .wav file into the first buffer. The sample should play.
4. When the sound is finished playing, exit [p Load_Target_Sounds], back at the main GUI ‘engage comparison’ by ticking the big toggle box and the ‘live’ toggle too. This will make it so that your microphone will drive the concatenation.
5. By default [zsa.dist] is working on ‘mode 0′. To change it to ‘mode 2′ (covariance) tick the first toggle under “Most alike/unlike list:”. You will notice that the comparison stops.
6. If you wish to inspect the mode message being sent double click [p The_Meat] sub patch on the main window. Inside of [p The_Meat] double click [p polyphonic]. In this sub patch, to the right, you will see how the ‘mode 2′ message is being sent.

Any help would be appreciated. Your contributions to live sound description have meant a lot to me. It is because of the existence of these objects that I have been able to pursue concatenative synthesis while attending college.

Thank you,

Jon Van Hoff

p.s. If this post makes it to your website, please do not include the links to the files as they represent unfinished work which I do not yet wish to share with the public.

p.p.s I also noticed that getsatisfaction.com/ej does not work. Else I would have posted there.

Jon Van Hoff 28 March 2011 at 6:04 # Reply

Better yet, here is a version of your zsa.dist.maxhelp with added patching to show you the bug. Way less complicated.

Best regrads,

Jon Van Hoff

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ej 28 March 2011 at 15:02 # Reply

Looks like getsatisfaction is working for me.

In your example, the inputs values are all the same which seems to cause some problem for the cosine and covariance calculation. I’ll investigate more but it sounds like it’s really sending things properly to the output and the result seems coherent when using more appropriate input.

Jon Van Hoff 14 April 2011 at 17:48 # Reply

I experienced this malfunction using an appropriate input. The modified help patch I made (as sloppy as it was) was just to give you an idea of the malfunction. It works, at least on my previously listed setup, in the same improper way as the modified help patch.

Diogo 1 June 2011 at 12:57 # Reply

Hello,
For some reason I have a error extracting files from the zip. I’m using “Unarchiver”.
It happens both in zsa.descriptors and ejies.
thanks

ej 29 July 2011 at 14:33 # Reply

This is really weird. Did you try with the MacOS standard BOM archiver?

fcs 7 June 2012 at 13:15 # Reply

Hi, I followed the instructions in the readme file but it seems that max does not load the externals. In maxWindow this message appears:

zsa.centroid~: unable to load object bundle executable
2012-06-07 13:59:31.583 MaxMSP[729:20b] Error loading /Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0gm4/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Contents/MacOS/zsa.centroid~: dlopen(/Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0gm4/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Content
s/MacOS/zsa.centroid~, 262): no suitable image found. Did find:
/Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0gm4/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Contents/MacOS/zsa.centroid~: unknown required load command 0×80000022

I’m on Mac OsX 10.5.8 and Max 5.1.9

any suggestions

Thanks in advance

ej 10 June 2012 at 11:07 # Reply

Hi Francesco,

It looks like it doesn’t work on Leopard. I’ll try to compile that on an other computer. Thanks for your patience.

ej
- fcs 11 June 2012 at 20:45 # Reply
  
  Thanks a lot! Wait for the news …. (I hope soon)…..
  
  Thanks again.
  
  fcs

David Stubbe Teglbjærg 15 October 2012 at 17:42 # Reply

Hey Emmanuel.

I more or less fixed the problems with the reference in Max 6. You are now able to right-click and click reference on an object and it will correctly load the reference. There is still one problem though. No matter what descriptors help page you open it displays a link to the ampstat~ ref in the top right corner. Didn’t have time to fix that, but it’s a minor problem.

What I did was update the refpages/_c74_ref_modules.xml so includes zsa-ref. I also renamed the zsa ref folder so it is consistent with what cycling uses for their own ref pages.

Next I updated this file:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Cycling ’74\Max 6.0\Cycling ’74\interfaces\obj-qlookup.json

This includes a list of all the Max/Msp objects. I just added the zsa to it like this for example:

“zsa.ampstats~”: {
“digest”: “TEXT_HERE”,
“module”: “zsa”,
“category”: [
"Unlisted"
]
}

Lastly I added module=”zsa” to the c74object name tag in each zsa xml ref file, so its:

If you want my updated working version of the refs for Max 6, send me you email and I’ll send you the files.

Regards,
David Stubbe Teglbjærg

ej 16 November 2012 at 0:02 # Reply

Thanks. Hopefully the problem with the reference will be addressed in a update of Max 6. I’ll make the adjustment then.

fcs 20 October 2012 at 11:45 # Reply

Hi Emmanuel, i tried the latest version of the bundle (that should be compatible with 10.5 system), but i still have problems to charge the externals.

In Max Window the usual message appears:

zsa.centroid~: unable to load object bundle executable
2012-10-20 12:22:26.074 MaxMSP[5800:20b] Error loading /Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0gm5/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Contents/MacOS/zsa.centroid~: dlopen(/Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0gm5/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Contents/MacOS/zsa.centroid~, 262): no suitable image found. Did find: /Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0g/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Contents/MacOS/zsa.centroid~: unknown required load command 0×80000022
zsa.centroid~: unable to load object bundle executable
2012-10-20 12:22:26.205 MaxMSP[5800:20b] Error loading /Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0gm5/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Contents/MacOS/zsa.centroid~: dlopen(/Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0gm5/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Contents/MacOS/zsa.centroid~, 262): no suitable image found. Did find:/Users/Francesco/MyMax/zsa.descriptors_1.0gm5/zsa.externals/zsa.centroid~.mxo/Contents/MacOS/zsa.centroid~: unknown required load command 0×80000022

Thanks in advance for your reply….

ej 16 November 2012 at 0:51 # Reply

Crap… I’ll have to find a 10.5 machine to make some test. Sorry for the inconvenience in the meantime.

Francesco 7 November 2012 at 15:17 # Reply

Hello,
I installed the zsa.descriptors, but by studying the patch example, I find that only zsa.centroid~ works, while all other objects do not give me any results.
Can you help me?
Thanks

ej 16 November 2012 at 0:03 # Reply

Do you see any error in the Max window?
- Francesco 24 November 2012 at 11:40 # Reply
  
  I see an error when I start Max, that is: RTC-Overview.help can’t open, bad header. But when I start zsa.descriptors I don’t see anything of strange on Max Window, I see only: Jitter 1.7.0 installed and then your licences.
  It seem a very strange situation!

Ben Carey 6 February 2013 at 3:56 # Reply

Hi EJ,

Love your externals – I make use of both zsa.mfcc~ and zsa.dist in a large patch of mine and it’s a perfect combination for timbral matching. The ejies get a workout in it too :-)

I have recently been building my application as a standalone and I intend upon releasing the application freely. Normally I’m a fan of the splash screen that comes up when these objects are first loaded – when I’m working in Max, however for my application it would be useful to be able to disable this when in standalone.

Is it possible to disable the splash screen for use in standalones?

Thanks,

Ben

ej 6 February 2013 at 23:25 # Reply

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your interest. If you want to get rid of the splash screen you should look at the commercial license, which is basically the only difference.

Cheers,
ej
- Ben Carey 8 February 2013 at 2:09 # Reply
  
  Hi EJ,
  
  Fantastic! I must have missed this option when I downloaded the objects a couple of years back. Great news!
  
  All the best from Sydney,
  
  Ben

What is Zsa.Descriptors?

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